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| Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=44975 |
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| Author: | sdsollod [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
I read on the kit guitar forum that you shouldn't use galanized pipe for a bending pipe. I did make a bender with a piece of galvanized pipe to do some small bending jobs, like binding around the headstock or bending the back strap of the headstock. I use a fox style bender for sides and binding. Should I not use galvanized pipe for bending? Am I exposing myself to zinc fumes? What other type pipe should be used instead? |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
Pretty sure you'd have to get the pipe red hot before fumes are an issue -- but I do know that water + iron, steel, galvanized or not can make for some really nasty stains "in the wood" -- difficult to remove -- but deck cleaner can actually remove those stains. Aluminum (used on all our production machines and for slats) or SS is a better choice. The blue spring steel can cause stains too. |
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
I'm with Ken, I don't think a hot pipe gets anywhere near hot enough to present a problem with zinc fumes. Though, I'm happy to be corrected if I am wrong. I use a galvanized pipe without staining issues, so far. . . I'll take Ken's warning and keep an eye out. I don't bend a ton of sides so my sample is small and I also haven't used a large sample of woods. I have bent maple and sycamore (light woods that may be expected to show stains) as well as Walnut and mahogany (both high in tannins and readily turning black from iron solutions). It should be noted that I don't use a ton of water but the pipe gets plenty wet sometimes. I don't see any signs of rust or corrosion (yet) starting on it. It does however, have a nice buildup of hardened resiny stuff on it which may be helping to avoid staining. I chose galvanized for no other reason than that it was the available chunk of scrap at the time. Steel is not the greatest conductor of heat. My charcoal starter heated pipe does just fine but I don't think it heats as evenly as aluminum would. I once needed to bend around a much tighter diameter than my pipe allows. I tried sticking a length of black steel pipe inside (wedged against the wall of the pipe and the heating element). The protruding section of the pipe never got hot enough to bend the binding. When I changed it out for a stick of 3/4" copper water pipe it worked like a dream. I keep my eye out for a cheap section of aluminum pipe scrap but until then I am fine. At least I know what I have. |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
Bryan that is interesting -- its been a long while since we tried galvanized slats, but that was short lived since we got black marks/stains on Walnut and Oak, green stains on Maple and Cherry. At that time we were not using distilled water -- perhaps the crap in our water caused the problem. |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
sdsollod wrote: Should I not use galvanized pipe for bending? Am I exposing myself to zinc fumes? What other type pipe should be used instead? If you are using a propane torch for heat I would advise you not to use galvanized pipe to bend your sides. Not sure how hot you have to get before you get into trouble but why would one want to chance it? I use aluminum pipe for free hand bending and have not had a problem. Tom |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_fume_fever |
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
Many variables I'm sure Ken. I'm not expert in metals but I suspect that it is dangerous to assume all "galvanized" products are equivalent in this respect. Also, the sides exposure to metal and water is quite different between slats and blankets compared to a hot pipe. Any given area of a side spends comparatively little time on the pipe where the slat contact would be during the whole bending process. Also the slats may be damp longer encouraging small amounts of corrosion (The pipe pretty much immediately boils off any water that touches it. Then, as you say, water chemistry likely plays a role. I would note for completeness, that I just use St. Louis tap water when I bend. We could probably come up with dozens of other variables. Of course, it could also be that my limited hobbyist experience has been lucky. . . The moral of this story is proceed with caution and don't assume that just because one person has had success doesn't mean it is foolproof. I suppose the converse is true too; if someone has had problems, it doesn't guarantee you will as well (but better safe than sorry). |
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| Author: | Quine [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
I've used a galvanized pipe with a heat gun for many builds now. Never had an issue with it or with staining. I do clean it after each use with Scotchbrite and soapy water to get any resin off it |
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
I used a piece of SS exhaust tube on my first set up . That worked real nice . Have since bought a bender . So now I have a Factory aluminum heat bender as well as a Heat blanket and side bending form |
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
So that is two data points with no staining, both using a pipe as opposed to slats and both using St. Louis water  Kevin, I know you have used hog and walnut, have you done any lighter woods on the pipe? Koa is said to readily stain with contact to certain metals; I can't recall if I have seen you use koa but I suspect you have.
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
You could try wrapping the galvanized with high temp. aluminum duct tape, or go to a local metal supplier and ask if they sell scrap pieces of alum. I've gotten alum. pipe for my bender for under $5, and bar stock for making jigs and fixtures for pennies. Alex |
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| Author: | sdsollod [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
I used a short section of galvanized pipe because I found it as scrap at Home Depot. I inserted a grill starter into the pipe rather than using a propane torch. I have only used it for bending small pieces of binding in ebony, zebra, and perhaps maple. I have also bent backstraps of walnut. I have experienced no staining, but I figure that if I did I could simply sand it off. So, I have not had any problems in the use of the galvanized pipe, I just want to make sure I'm not potentially harming myself. Sometimes you can unknowingly expose yourself to hazards. I just want make sure I'm not doing that... |
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
Steve, I apologize for veering off the more important topic of safety. I would love for someone who knows for sure if the temps we are talking about present a danger to chime in here. |
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| Author: | Doug Sawyer [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
I made my hot pipe out of an aluminum baseball bat I got at Goodwill for 3 bucks. I left part of the handle on so I would be able make real tight bends if I wanted to. |
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
Now there"s an idea. Thanks! |
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| Author: | Clinchriver [ Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
Bryan Bear wrote: Now there"s an idea. Thanks! Here is another idea, ditch the galvanized, you probably don't get enough heat into the tube to fume but if you have ever welded or cut with a torch its nasty stuff. I'm a sprinkler fitter/sprayhead by trade  2" aluminum pipe cheap, https://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.c ... &top_cat=0 |
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| Author: | Peebs [ Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
Bending doesn't get it hot enough to be a problem. Welding temperatures are dangerous. |
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| Author: | guitarjtb [ Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
Metal fume fever from Wiki. Symptoms The symptoms are nonspecific but are generally flu-like including fever, chills, nausea, headache, fatigue, muscle aches, joint pains, lack of appetite, shortness of breath, Pneumonia, chest pain, blood pressure change and cough. A sweet or metallic taste in the mouth may also be reported along with a dry or irritated throat which may lead to hoarseness. Symptoms of a more severe metal toxicity may also include a burning sensation in the body, shock, no urine output, collapse, convulsions, shortness of breath, yellow eyes or yellow skin, rash, vomiting, watery or bloody diarrhea or low or high blood pressure, which require prompt medical attention. Flu-like symptoms will normally disappear within 24 to 48 hours. It often takes one to three weeks to fully recover. When mixed with steam from hot wood, it can cause an overwhelming desire to hoard large stashes of exotic wood, for grinding into little sawdust piles. 
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| Author: | sdsollod [ Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
When mixed with steam from hot wood, it can cause an overwhelming desire to hoard large stashes of exotic wood, for grinding into little sawdust piles. I think I'm getting those symptoms...  Doug, The aluminum baseball bat is a great idea. ...if I could only find one that cheap... |
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| Author: | peter.coombe [ Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
I have been using a galvanised pipe (actually 2 of different diameters) and propane torch for 21 years and can see no good reason to change. They were both from scrap at the local metal shop. I welded a steel rod to them and hold them in the vice via the rod. Looks like the welding process was the hazardous step, but that was 21 years ago and I'm not dead yet. |
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| Author: | Goodin [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
I use galvanized 3/16" rod to make compression truss rods. I heat the rod to red hot to make a 90 degree bend for the hook that goes in the heel area of the neck. I haven't had any issues, but I always have cross ventilation and a fan blowing fumes away from me. |
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
Gil, I think heating to hot enough to bend probably does represent a danger. Maybe the short duration and infrequent exposure with cross ventilation is okay, maybe not. . . Consider this as an alternative. When I make a compression rod, I cut a small half-moon shaped slug out of some flat stock. I trill and tap threads in it and cut just enough threads on the other end of the rod. I screw the anchor onto the rod and peen the rest of the rod over locking it im place. It is not as convenient as drilling a hole for the 90 degree bend; you have to cut a small channel perpendicular to the TR slot with a chisel. Just a thought. . . |
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| Author: | Goodin [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
Thanks for the idea Bryan. Would you happen to have a pic or two? |
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Galanized pipe for a bending pipe? |
I don't have any pictures handy but I had posted some pics of one in an old OLF challenge thread: viewtopic.php?f=10133&t=37268&start=50 That thread has quite a bit of chafe and not too much wheat but you should get an idea from the picture. I think there is a picture of the slot in there too somewhere. |
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